Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, my pioneering and revolutionary friends, and welcome to rework rewriting our kids' education podcast. I am your host Michelle person, and we are on a journey. We are rethinking reexamining, reeducating ourselves and our children. Many of you know that my journey into wokeness began with my journey as an author. A few years ago, I wrote a book as a gift for my youngest daughter's father and at the prodding of friends and family decided to try to get it published. It was on that journey that I became aware of the almost nonexistent availability of books with black and brown main characters. I am ashamed to say that I did not think much of it before and I should have, because I am an educator. That knowledge did something to me. And as I reflected on my childhood favorites, Ramona Quimby, the babysitters club, the sweet valley high books, I decided that I wanted to create a more diverse space for my children and the children in my classrooms and schools.
Speaker 0 00:01:00 But I soon found that having the desire to create that space and having the avenues to do so are two completely different things. The publishing industry is still incredibly difficult to break into, and it is very, very white. My guest today is a disruptor of sorts and African American woman who has discovered that the traditional publishing route is not, not necessarily the only way to go and encourages everyone to consider a nontraditional route. It has been said that the power of a diverse book is that it can change everything for one kid and create empathy and a hundred more. So how do we work to make sure we get more books out here that change everything and create empathy and, oh yeah. Are you woke
Speaker 0 00:02:11 Independently? Published books are taking the industry by storm with a 40% increase in sales from 2017 to 2018 alone. This relatively new avenue for publishing does have pitfalls, overpriced vanity presses, milking customers for thousands of dollars for poorly created content is one issue, but it also has its advantages increasing access to diverse content to the masses and giving opportunities were once there were none. Our guest today is, and she has been on the forefront of this new frontier for over 20 years and is here to share what she has learned. Hey, Julia, how you doing today? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm awesome. I wanna thank you so much for doing this today. And I wanna start off by having you tell everybody about your background. How did you get into publishing? Oh my goodness. So, um, thank you so much first off for having me.
Speaker 0 00:03:09 Um, I always am excited about, um, talking about writing, publishing promotions, business, whatever it is. Um, I I'm, I'm truly honored and privileged. So first off I'm Dr. Julia, Roy, I own BK, Roy publishing, Royal media and publishing, and also Juju for music publishing as well as, um, the businesses where we help you get your message to the turn words into wealth and be a book business. So publishing really kinda, uh, came to me out of tragedy. Um, I was in graduate school and I tell people all the time I was getting a degree in a divorce at the same time. Oh wow. And, um, after all that happened, 1994 graduated had my, uh, degree and was moving forward with my life and fast forward. Uh, I started journaling 95, 96. I always love books. Now I'm that kid who, who was, uh, told to go to bed, Julianne, turn that light out and no turn that flashlight out that you, that you got on underneath the covers.
Speaker 0 00:04:16 And so I've always loved to read my mother, read to us every my dad was an educator. So, you know, reading books, education has always been a part of our lives. So fast forward to the nineties, I started journaling was a healing process. It had nothing to do with my ex-husband. He wasn't included. He, you know, as I say, we weren't giving that much right to him, anything that with that, but it really was a healing was very therapeutic for me. Uh, and I always loved to read, so I wasn't really thinking it was a book then fast forward, meet a new guy, new guy, and, uh, said you ready to the book out notebook you, right? Not, you know, those 80 count, uh, spiral dollar tree, uh, uh, dollar general store notebooks. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> all of those. You've been packing from city to city.
Speaker 0 00:05:11 As you move, progressing your career. Now you're settled. Now you're married, uh, to a good, who's gonna support you in everything you do. Um, so now it's time to put the book out when I put the book out first, um, I went with one of the, you know, vanity presses mm-hmm <affirmative> and cause I didn't know what I was doing. So therefore I didn't really know. I didn't know what I was doing until the process was over. Right. So after I got my coins paid the several hundred dollars and got the book back, I realized looking through it, I did everything. Mm. Um, I had my father-in-law, who's really very analytical and a great editor. He edited the first one, um, my first book and was my editor for many, many years. And then, um, I did the cover. I did the back, I did everything.
Speaker 0 00:06:00 Mm-hmm <affirmative> the only thing they did was put the barcode on it. And they said they put two dots on the front and you know, they're barely able to see, you know, what just needs to be, uh, what did they call it? It just to be, you know, highlighted in some way, when I, I had done everything mm-hmm <affirmative> so I knew then, OK, this is not gonna work. So when I released my first book, it was a book of poetry, but I, I sing as well. That's what Juju music publishing is. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I have written about five songs. So I had my own, um, music publishing company too as well. So I released a book, the DVD and the CD at the same time. Okay. So that was all recorded at a one woman show. And so that all came out at one time.
Speaker 0 00:06:47 Of course the DVD and CD came out later, but the book was available at that one woman show. So therefore, um, after that first book was done, I'm like, okay, I need to, um, do my own, uh, have my own platform. Uh, even long before Tyler Perry said it. I said, you know, I, I'm not gonna be big. And people have a seat at the table. <affirmative> publishing was of it's 14 years old. OK. So that's kinda the evolution to that. And then of course after that, you, you can just forget it. I'm just gonna be doing my own thing. I wanna be sink or swim, succeed, or fail. It's gonna be on. So take back a little bit to your journey. Late nineties, 96, 97, when you're like, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. God told you was tough me to write this book.
Speaker 0 00:07:44 Did you find, as you, like when you found vanity press, um, was that process, uh, did you find that it was difficult, um, even to find vanity press who was willing to work with you and see your vision? And do you think that had anything to do with, um, you know, you're, you are being a, an author of color or, you know, were the doors just kind of flung open for you? An opportunity bounded? Like how, how did it work for you? OK. So as far as vanity presses go, they give you the package. They tell you how much it is, and then if it needs to be edited, they tell you what that is. And it's all out. It it's a pay to play. If you can pay, then you can play. And here's the, there's not all about not what I do. It's not all about, what's your vision?
Speaker 0 00:08:28 Who do you know, what do you do for a living? It's not that kinda, uh, um, uh, interview process because after 14 years authors feel like they want out whether they wanna work with me, but I'm also trying to figure out whether I wanna work with them after 14 years, but back, and then the vanity press situation is all about, you know, what services do you wanna offer? And this is how much you cost. It was not about my vision. It's not about. And I was in, I, I live in Southern Indiana. So this vanity press is in Indiana. So I said, okay. And you know, had decent reviews. I guess the, the reviews that I could see, they were allowing to be posted were decent. So as, as a, they were, I feel like they were looking at me as black, brown, green, or purple green, it's green.
Speaker 0 00:09:20 And you know, the color is green, you know, it's, it's all about the credit card. And can you pay, so then after that, if you wanted marketing your promotions, everything was an add on everything was a, you know, an additional fee. And if you could pay the fee, didn't matter whether it was gonna work or not. And it was, it wasn't a matter of teaching me anything or not. It was a matter of swipe the credit card, put your credit card number in and let's go, did you at all, um, go down the road of traditional publishing, did you? No. Okay. No, no, no. Uh, I had heard too many horror stories even then about the rejection letter. I mean, you know, you can just do a, a Google search or a YouTube search and see, uh, I was rejected times, well, God told me to write it.
Speaker 0 00:10:07 He told me to it out. Of course I didn't, you know, I know differently now, 14 years later than I knew that, uh, that I knew now, but, you know, I, I knew way more now than I knew then, but it, it was like I had a command, so I was doing it. OK. So I didn't need, I, I wasn't gonna say right. So God told me to do it. So I'm gonna go through 25 people who gonna tell me no. And he said, yes. So I'm a faith based person. So therefore I'm like, well, you're gonna lead me. And if you really are telling me to do it and keep me up late at night, and I'm getting up early in the morning and I'm agonizing about it, and I've got the, the resources in my, in my sphere of influence, then I don't, I, I really don't need that.
Speaker 0 00:10:50 And even today, traditional, um, publishing is really, uh, it's an avenue for some and the only avenue for some, but I'm finding that I have, I publish people as an independent publisher that have been traditionally published. I mean, it's wide open. And then I know sometimes they say, well, I just wanna be self published. And so I need all services from you. So it's a, it's a wide range of some people are all into the traditional publishing process and it works for them. And then some people like, well, I'll try in the traditional and I'll do some self-publishing and that'll be, and then I'll in there and just all. So I think for people that are to, um, to write and be published, and it's definitely a great time for black and brown people. So talk to actually me, uh, more, a little bit more about that.
Speaker 0 00:11:48 Like where, what do you typically publish with your publishing house? Where, who do you, what types of authors, what types of genres do you typically work with? Well, I work with pretty much everyone from, um, now there are some things that I just, um, will not touch mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's just not a quality manuscript. It's just not, it doesn't make sense. Um, it, it, it doesn't have, uh, an audience, it, it needs to be refined, but I do have people who are writing coaches and I'm a writing coach as well, but then there are some themes and some thoughts that are even OK, so publishing is faith based and family's, children's Devo and all what I call are global issues. So the I scifi, um, mystery, thrillers, you know, where I say sex, drugs and rock and roll is, you know, but it's gotta be a quality.
Speaker 0 00:12:44 Um, it's gotta be a quality, something worth publishing, something that I'm, I thought, go ahead. So it, so therefore, you know, I have a genre, uh, I have a publishing company for, uh, your genre. I really do. Um, there's not too many genres that I have not, uh, published. And most people, even if they're under the Royal media and publishing brand, they're like, do we still get you? I said, yes, you still get me. So they're, they're cool with that. But I primarily focus right now. There's such a high demand for, um, black and brown children's books. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, for the diversity inclusion, equity, uh, initiatives, they're just looking for, you know, and, and I have to be quite honest. Some of them are saying, I dunno, where, like, I don't know where Theyre baby, we out there, you just, I think you're looking with your ass <laugh> that's, that's young adults and that's, children's, um, that's the, um, middle grades and all of that is really, really, really hot right now.
Speaker 0 00:13:51 Um, self help will always, um, be the, to always be hot because people wanna live a better life. Something that's gonna help people be better, uh, make more money, uh, live a better life. That's always, uh, really gonna be, uh, hot. I do autobiographical, um, books as well. Um, and, and, you know, I need people to really tie it to a business, et cetera. So I I'm pretty much, uh, cross the board fiction. Non-fiction inspirational. Children's et cetera. Poetry. Do you find that most of your, so what percentage of your authors are black or brown? I guess my, my question is, do you find that more, uh, black and brown authors are finding you than, than, um, than authors? Or is it a, is it a good mix? Oh, it's it's, it's not, I, I would say probably black and brown is probably 97%. Um, I have a few that are non-black and brown, uh, authors that I do publish, but the percentage is, is primarily not 90.
Speaker 0 00:14:53 Some, some come, just inquiring, um, because Royston is, uh, a Caucasian name. And then they find out I'm black, uh, female, and they're like, oh, thank you for your information. Thank you for your time. And then they move along. But some are like, I in, I mean, you know, I want Julia and that's why do you think more black and brown authors are coming to the nontraditional, um, in independent publishing route? Why do you think that they're flocking to, to these different ways to get their, their works out? Well, um, the timeline is much, uh, sooner right now, the timeline, even for children's books for traditional publishing could be one to two years. OK. OK. Even after the manuscript is finished, you know, for, for marketing and promotions, you could wait a year or so. So therefore, I mean, what are we waiting for? We could be making money now, you know, and if you already, so say for example, you have a children's book it's right here, right.
Speaker 0 00:15:53 Hot right now. So why are we waiting? Unless it's something for a specific time of year it's associated with a specific season, what are we waiting on? You know, there is just so many opportunities now that why are we waiting? What, what is the problem? So to me, it's more of role. You have, uh, more, uh, control of what now I'm gonna advise you. I'm not gonna let you just put out anything mm-hmm <affirmative>, but I'm gonna advise you, but it's more of control of, this is what I want the character to look like. This is what I want the, um, story line to be. This is what I want the plot to be. And, and I can say you, yes, that'll sell no that won't sell. You need to adjust that. So that's, that's a part of what I bring to the table, as opposed to vanity press was like, you know, matter us.
Speaker 0 00:16:42 We just, we got the green money we moving forward. Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. So what do you, what do you do? Or what, what do you say when people ask you, how do we, how can we encourage even more? I know you said like 90, 97, 90 8% of your clientele is black or brown and, and I'm sure, but like you also said, you don't always touch all those manuscripts because no, all of them are, are, are ready to go. Um, how do we en, and even with your 97, 90 8%, um, um, being out there and, and those being in your clients, if you look at the stats for books that are published with, um, with, by black and brown authors about black and brown characters, they're still abysmal compared to what goes compared to what goes out every year. Um, so how do we encourage, um, the industry to support more diverse stories and any steps that you've taken to disrupt the status quo?
Speaker 0 00:17:38 Like what have you done, um, with your, with your publishing company to try to disrupt the fact that there aren't more stories like this out there? Well, first off, um, I do host, uh, writing workshops for adults. Um, and I usually charge a very, you know, uh, 15 to 25 or $30, um, for the general public. Um, as a matter of fact, I just did one in Montgomery, Alabama, and, um, you know, in our community for our people. Um, and then I have gone to the next level of partnering with schools, um, to really encourage, um, writing, um, for it on the elementary, middle and high school level. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and a little bit differently because, um, you know, like, well, what different is that we have young authors, we've been doing young authors for a long time. Yes you have. And yes, schools have, and yes, school districts have, and, and they win the blue ribbon and they win awards.
Speaker 0 00:18:39 And, oh my gosh, you're such a great writer. You wrote that book in fifth grade or in eighth grade or whatever is wonderful, but these schools are actually paying for the book to not only be published, but for the children and their parents to purchase the books at the discounted author rate, and they're able to sell the book and they're able to keep the profits mm-hmm <affirmative>. So the profits are not going back to the school. The profits are kept with the child mm-hmm <affirmative> so therefore, you know, I'm encouraging entrepreneurship in addition to writing. So now I have children who, and I think we've done we're on book six and seven. So we're, um, on multiple books with multiple schools, we just need to find other schools that are willing to pay for it and buy into it. But what has happened is the children are able to keep the profits they have now, um, a college fund.
Speaker 0 00:19:32 They now have, uh, one parent says I don't buy school lunches anymore. I don't buy his clothes anymore. He buys his own. So as long as he has inventory, he's he has something to sell mm-hmm <affirmative> and he'll have that inventory and something to sell as long I'm. And so that's a beautiful thing. And one thing that I've really encouraged, um, young people to do is to write and not just, oh, write on your own. And no, when you have an actual product to sell, and you're going through the entrepreneur process and you and your parents are standing there, you give a book and then they actually get money that they're able to in their pocket. Uh, yeah, that's that, that puts a whole new spin on the whole, uh, on the whole process itself. So that's encouraging that at a age than waiting until you're an adult thinking.
Speaker 0 00:20:24 I, I give you, I wanna, you, um, creating a, that you can have for life and make money on it for life. So writing workshops for adults to help them, um, hone their skills, and then starting young with our, with our babies, to teach them the process, to help them understand that this is a business that they can get paid for for, and, and basically explaining to them that they don't have to wait the traditional route to be able to make money off of this and to be able to create something that is, uh, what they call a evergreen, um, evergreen, an evergreen source of income. Um, I mean, those are, I mean, that is, that is what they do not want you to know. I tell people all the time, when, when they ask her, why are you independently published? Why did you choose not to go the tradition arrival?
Speaker 0 00:21:12 I said, do you remember the episode of, um, behind the music with TLC, where they broke down, how a mu uh, a, a company of a act can sell a million records and be broke. She did a whole breakdown. She was like, this is how, yeah, she did. It's one of my favorite one, my favorite episode, she says, this is how group can tell a million records and still be broke. Everybody, get your pencils out. And she breaks down exactly how in the music industry, they take advantage of the artists, not even necessarily take advantage of the artist, but the way its set up to where it's the same thing in the same thing. People like, oh, I want they advance. Okay, boo. Right now let's, let's, let's do like TLC. Let's get the, break it down. So if they give you right now, advances are unless you're, uh, Michelle Obama or somebody right now, the advances for, uh, a regular person such as me would anywhere from five to OK.
Speaker 0 00:22:10 Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But if your book only sells two, the rest of that, they coming back for exactly. So therefore that recruitment, oh, I want engine. I want marketing and promotions. I want somebody, well, you can market and promot it yourself. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I tell people all the time, okay, your book is on Amazon, but if you sell the book, the profit margin and you don't have to split 60 40 with somebody mm-hmm <affirmative>, you can have your own store, you can have your own, uh, ability to sell it yourself from your own, uh, website or from social media and go for it. So what are you waiting on? So, you know, like, so, you know, it's, it's that whole, uh, entrepreneurial, uh, um, collect and, and keep more of my profits. Mm-hmm <affirmative> than, um, having someone else, you know, uh, have my profits.
Speaker 0 00:22:57 Definitely, definitely. Now, do you have any tips or suggestions for, um, for any authors out there who are, who are interested in being published? Um, well, first off I, I go back, um, three questions that I ask every time I open up a writer's workshop, whether I have it in person or online, uh, first off always know who you wanna talk to. Who are you wanting to talk to? Cause that gonna determine how you're gonna write, um, and, and what direction cause we can talk about, or we can be talking about abuse on an adult level, but also when you're speaking child theary is different, the approach is different. So wanna, what you wanna topic? And then number three, is what format is it a children's book? Is it fiction? Is it nonfiction? Because, um, you can always, uh, interject those same themes, uh, in your, um, in no matter what, uh, the format of the book it is.
Speaker 0 00:24:02 And then the fourth thing that I really I'm, I'm adding more than anything else is making sure you have a passionate connection to that topic. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like, you're like, you're a student of that. It's something that you love, something that you're passionate about. Cause when you sell your book, you've got to be able to tell people about it. You've got to be connected to it and you need to be, uh, love it and be passionate about it and be able to tell it and explain it in a clear, concise manner so that people will understand it. And then number five, um, probably the number, the number five thing that I would say when writing a book and the book is not started, you haven't finished it. You don't even have an outline. You have no is that it can possibly turn into a business, something associated with what you do.
Speaker 0 00:24:52 If you're in ministry, you need to have a book specifically associated with the type of ministry you have and who you minister to and what you minister about. If you're in a business, I have a publishing company, we're all about writing and promoting your book. I have a signature series. That's write that book. Now, publish that book. Now promote that book. Now I take it everywhere I go. I don't care if it's for a children's event adult event, because that is signature associated with my business, have something that is associated with your business. Now we can multiple products, et cetera, but always make sure that that book that you have can be associated with something else. And then I think finally make sure that you don't put everything in the book, make sure that you're able to drive back to you so that people will want more from want to connect with you and just putting a book out and say, here it is.
Speaker 0 00:25:52 And, and making no connection to it and not driving it. Are you gonna be a coach? Are you gonna be a mentor? Are you gonna provide workshops? Are you gonna provide a conference? Is it gonna be a tele? Is there a webinar associated with it? Are there additional products services that we can create surrounding that book and surrounding that message that can expand much larger and much further than you can ever think about? So therefore creating a book, I'm sorry. No. So think, think beyond your book. So like way beyond, way beyond your book, you understand that there are possibilities that you probably haven't even thought about yet when you sit down to write. I think that's amazing. Definitely. Yes. How can, how can writers get ahold of you if they wanna work with you? Talk with royce.com. That's my calendar. So know that that calendar is on Eastern time zone, but schedule a free con consultation, a free conversation.
Speaker 0 00:26:49 Let's have a conversation first and, um, there are two questions. This is your first book. And do you wanna be on my, uh, email list, but those are the two questions. And then, uh, go ahead and schedule and then we'll have a conversation then we'll move from there. Awesome. Well, thank you Julia so much for us publishing industry and how get involved in it. It was to talking to you as well, you and think, and you're show notes and resources to the things we discussed today are available on our website at www just like me, presents.com, share this podcast with parents and other educators in your circle and be sure to subscribe. So you never miss an episode. And if you like what you heard, leave us a review reviews, help others discover show and begin their own woke journey. Have a great week. And remember if our children can see it, they can.
