Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, my aware and mindful tribe and welcome to rework rewriting our kids education podcast. On today's episode, we are going to be talking about the non-traditional student. We talk a lot on this show about rethinking everything we have ever been taught today. We're going to be rethinking about how we teach our kids to measure success and how we can better support them when their interests don't align with what we want for them. Steve jobs, the founder of apple once said, you don't have to be a genius or a visionary, or even a college graduate to be successful. You just need a framework and a dream. What's your dream and oh yeah. Are you
Speaker 0 00:01:10 Our guest today is Tiffany. Larden meta a digital marketer and project coordinator where she helps working adults develop skills that will help their future careers and increase their potential earnings. Tiffany decided early on that the traditional path education wasn't for her, but that didn't stop her from wanting to learn and keep going her skillset. She just wanted her learning to have meaning many times kids that don't do well in the traditional classroom. Take issue with the idea of learning something, just to take a test, they want to learn something so they can do something. The idea of working towards the abstract concept of an does it motivate them. So they mistakenly believe that they can't be successful in life. I mean, after all a four year college degree is the only way to be successful, right wrong. There are many ways students can be successful and today we're going to learn what they are.
Speaker 0 00:02:07 Tiffany lied to meta. Thank you so much for being with us today and stopping by to talk to us about non-traditional students. Um, I'm going to get everybody full disclaimer. Um, I have known Tiffany for literally over half of my life. Um, since we were just talking since I was like 15 years old, 16 years old, and, um, her career path has been amazing to watch, um, because she has been an advocate for, um, for, for non-traditional students for a really long time. So to thank you so much for being here today, and I want you to tell everybody about your background and why you are the person that I wanted to talk to about the non-traditional student. Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me, you know, this is about time when you first started this podcast. I told you I wanted to come on here and I am such an advocate, the non-traditional students.
Speaker 0 00:03:00 So, um, my background pretty simple. I am a lifelong learner and I believe in, um, professional skills development throughout your entire life, I've changed careers multiple times, but mostly have stuck in the marketing and digital tech space, but I've also worked in education. So I've worked for several career colleges in the career services department, helping students get jobs, helped over 400 students get jobs in the Cleveland area. And I've also visited every single high school in Cleveland, Akron, and Canton, and talk to kids about life after graduation. Um, but, but truly I'm a non-traditional student because even though I had great grades growing up, um, you know, straight A's, even when I dropped out of school, I still consider myself a kind of person that likes to learn on the job, have that hands-on training and also teach myself and continue to just read and stay sharp on my skills.
Speaker 0 00:04:00 So for these kinds of students, and I'll share more about exactly how to know what kind of student you're dealing with as a parent, um, so that you can help prepare your kids for a great career. That's awesome. And, and I can vouch 100%, uh, straight A's. Um, I remember when Tiffany made the decision to leave traditional education, um, because quite honestly at the, like, if I'm remembering correctly and correct me, if I'm wrong, you kind of felt it was bullshit. Um, like you were, you were, you were paying all that money. We were at school for skills that you didn't feel like were really transferrable and opted to go a different route. Um, and I know that some people kind of looked at you like what? Like you're supposed to go to a four year institution you're supposed to finish. Why not? Um, and you were like, oh, I'm gonna do it my own way.
Speaker 0 00:04:49 Um, I guess before we really get into what, what you define a trend to non-traditional students would be, um, what, what was it you feel that made? What made you make that decision? I guess what, why were you like, you know, what F this, like, I don't need to spend $40,000 to get a piece of paper to make me feel like I am somebody to the validate, you know, the skills that I have. What made you go that route? You know, um, I actually dropped out of school twice, so I was in college and then some financial issues came up and, you know, didn't have the support to help pay for education. So I was doing it on my own. I was working two jobs and still trying to do college. And I did the whole college experience, went away to school, had the roommates, had all of that good stuff going on.
Speaker 0 00:05:38 And I just realized that I wasn't learning anything in the classes. And I went to college to learn. Um, the truth is that I read about three to five hours a day. It's my favorite hobby, my favorite activity. Um, I, one day I was looking at my report card. I had all A's all the way down and I asked myself, what did you learn? And I couldn't think of one thing that I really learned. I'm not saying this is an easy path. I'm not saying that it's, it's the right thing for everyone, but there is some merit in, um, in really getting to know yourself and figuring out the path on your own. And then you still do have to do some work and keep those skills sharp so that you can compete against people who have a four year traditional college degrees. Uh, and it's not an easy path it's been, I mean, again, I've been, I've been like there for, for a lot of it.
Speaker 0 00:06:30 You know, we, we, we talk often and I know that there have been highs and there have been lows, but the highs have been really good. And the most, I feel, I feel that you would feel that the lows were worth it. Um, you know, even though that, even though it was a different career path, what would you describe as a non-traditional student? Who was it not when you, when you go in, when you were going in, when you were working with, um, some of the career placement centers and you were going, and you were speaking to, to, um, to the different classes and things in the different high schools, what student did you realize always gravitate towards you? What, what characteristics, what, what, what was the type of student that you were like, yeah, that's that, that's a non-traditional student that this is a kid I can help.
Speaker 0 00:07:13 What did that kid look like? Well, I mean, first of all, most of the time when we're defining non-traditional students, we're talking about college students, right? So we're talking about the over 25. Even some of my students were up to like 60 or 70 years old who are going back to school after, um, after 18, you know, they were working adults, they wanted some flexibility. They generally prefer online learning, or just to get to the point. They didn't want to take all of those extra classes. So when I would go to the schools, I would talk to students who, it seemed like every student, if they were a girl, they want to be a nurse or a teacher. If they were a boy, they wanted to go into sports management. I heard that so many times you have no idea. Um, and they'd had no idea what these careers actually were.
Speaker 0 00:08:02 They had no idea what they would be doing. And so I could see which kids would end up coming to one of my career colleges, um, just by how they interacted with their other students. Um, if they were disinterested in class, but they really did great. And those hands-on type of classes, like they prefer those classes where like, uh, art or choir or things like that. Like they Excel and in classes that we wouldn't consider, uh, you know, academics. Right. Um, another thing if they wanted to go to the military, or if they just didn't have the grades, they couldn't really pay attention unless they were in a group discussions or things like that. They couldn't just go home and study for a test and then, you know, get right to it. Um, they took out a lot of time off, maybe. Um, there were, there was a lot of teen pregnancy when I was going into the schools about 10 to 15 years ago.
Speaker 0 00:08:58 Um, and a lot of them would just tell me, I don't want to go to college. I mean, that really is that the main thing to look for is if they just splat out, tell you I am sick of school and I don't want to go to college, I want to work. I want to make money. Those are the kinds of kids that will probably end up being non students, going back to school to get some sort of certification or something helped them in their career. Well, after they turned 18. So I guess my question right now is parents. You're hearing this, um, you know, your kids, you know, if there's a kid that, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're on their back and you want them to, um, and you're, you want them to be getting those A's in those English classes and those four year degrees, uh, or that lead those four year degrees, you know, which kid, you know, you're always the one, like, why can't you pay attention in class?
Speaker 0 00:09:48 Why aren't you turning in your homework? Um, you know, and you're arguing with the kids about, you know, you know, your kid and you're arguing with your kid about going to college, and they're saying to, you know, um, and so you, I think, I know for a fact, Tiffany, you know, my oldest son, um, is a non-traditional student. Um, and I wish 100% that I had recognized that when he was 14, um, because it would have saved the both of us so much heartache, um, um, during the next four years of high school, like, I, I was determined to put that boy in a private school and he was four year college. And he sent me with mom and my, but my baby is a Marine and I'm proud of it and he's loving the military and it works for him. Um, he's getting, he's getting those hands on skills he's learning to do with his passion, his which is cooking.
Speaker 0 00:10:37 Um, and so like happy. Um, you know, and I really, really wish that I compare all the time, the difference between my 19 year old and my four-year-old, and I am trying so hard to take the lessons that I've learned from my 19 year-old and apply them to my four-year-olds, that I can parent different. Um, and this is one of them. So I've learned that lesson, that with my, having my non-traditional student, that I tried to force to be traditional and it did not work. So, um, my, my question, yeah. My question to you is what, what, what can parents do? Like you described perfectly what a non-traditional student is, all of those things. I know people listening like, oh yeah, that's my kid. That's my niece. That's my nephew. Um, how can you as a parent, when you, once you recognize that that's the kind of student you have, how can you support them?
Speaker 0 00:11:27 Okay. So I love this part because there are so many things that you can do with, first of all, what you just said is perfect. Don't make them feel bad. Don't make them feel bad for being different. We all learn in different ways. If you think about it, some people are good with logistics and tactical learning. Some people aren't good with spacial intelligence, you know, there's all these different types. So we can't make them feel bad for not, not fitting into that traditional path. And you also have to remember that 65% of the workforce does not have a four-year degree. So it's not like, it's not like they're just going to be in the minority. So you got to think about it that way too. So what kind of things that you can do, obviously encourage exploration? Um, you can find so many valuable insights by helping your child get to know themselves.
Speaker 0 00:12:11 So hobbies, I mean, there, there's certain things that they gravitate to. You said your son loves cooking. So do I love cooking and I can cook my butt off for sure. And it was something that I learned in school. Right. But it is something that, you know, it's a skill that you develop, so encourage your children with their, with their hobbies and stuff. Um, another thing is make them take personality tests, right? So you've heard of Myers-Briggs, you've heard of disc on those kinds of personality tests. I had my son taking that, um, when he was like 12 years old and he was able to find out that he's an introvert. He had such a hard time realizing that, you know, I don't like being around people all the time. I don't like, you know, I need to recharge after hanging out with a group, those kinds of insights help him.
Speaker 0 00:12:55 And they help him. Um, especially as he's researching careers and trying to figure out what he wants to do. Um, another thing that you can do is encourage their work experiences. So while they're doing their work, try to tell them about transferrable skills that are going to be important in every single job that they have to do. So teach them about communication and conflict resolution and empathy and those things, and help them figure out what examples in their current work situation, part-time job, whatever, you know, and their work situation that they can continue to, to develop. So, um, for instance, me working, I worked at pizza hut. I was a waitress, you know, in my younger days. Um, and that also worked on a couple of other restaurant jobs, those skills they're so valuable. And they've taught me so much about business, um, teaching you how to humble yourself, of teaching you about proper communication, sales skills, marketing skills, all of those shaped my career.
Speaker 0 00:13:51 And so if your child is in some sort of part-time job, or even a club, help them see what skills will transfer into the job market and keep them developing those skills. Um, another thing, like I said before about kids not knowing what the actual career consists of, um, when a little girl would tell me that she wanted to be a nurse, I would explain to her what a nurse does on a daily basis and let her, you know, you will be, you know, touching people who are sick and turning them over and wiping butts and doing, you know, these are things that you're going to have to do, and you can see her all dressed up in her cute little outfit gone.
Speaker 0 00:14:29 I want to do that. So, so just talk to your kids about the, the, their hobbies, their, their work experiences, make sure that they're getting skills. Um, don't make them feel bad just to encourage whatever direction they are taking themselves. Um, but provide those resources to help them get along. I think that I love what you said about, um, all those tips and, and what I will say is you can, 100% use those even with your traditional students. Um, my middle daughter, my 16 year old is a very traditional student. She is clearly going to college. She has been saying, she's going to college since she was like five years old. She knew what college he wanted to go to. She's a junior, she's already taking college classes. So like she knows what she wants to do, but she has such a narrow focus. Um, and in a, in a career that I'm like, yo, you're not gonna make any money.
Speaker 0 00:15:21 Um, so what I'm trying to get her to understand is that, um, I tried to get, she, she wants to write, she loves writing. She, she wants to major in creative writing and I'm all for that. I think you should do what, you're, what you love. I also don't want to live in on my couch and seek more years because my sleep, you know, like, you know, like I'm, my goal is to raise independent children. So what I'm trying to get her to understand is there are those skills you were talking about those transferable skills. She needs to learn them because even in your traditional path, it's good to be flexible. It's good to have those skills. So I've been, I pushed and pushed and pushed for her to join your book and take journalism because I need her to, because these days, those classes is where you learn layout, editing, video recording.
Speaker 0 00:16:06 And, and so she thought she did not want to do it, but she did it. She's actually in journalism too right now. And they, and she, when she came in ironic, she will never admit it to me, but I believe she is enjoying it. She's learning how to run a teleprompter. She's learning how to record. She's learning how to work. The camera she's being on camera. She's doing all those things and you can write the next great American novel while you pay your bills with those transferable skills that you're learning in those, in those endeavors that you were talking about, those clubs, those hobbies, those part-time jobs. So, um, 100%, those tips that you gave are for, I think you can use them for the traditional student and the non-traditional student, because I know I'm using them right now with my very traditional student. Um, now as, so obviously one of the things that parents are probably concerned about is if you have this nontraditional student, that's saying to you, um, I don't want to go to college immediately.
Speaker 0 00:17:00 I think a lot of us are thinking, oh my God, what are they going to do? I want them to have a good life. I want them to be self-sufficient. I want them to be able to provide for themselves what types of career options are there for the non-traditional student. Right. Okay. I mean, there are so many, I mean, you can think about all the jobs that don't require a four-year degree, and there are a ton of them in every field. And then also want to go back to this. We changed careers, how many times in our lives? I mean, I I've the last, I read them somewhere between five to seven times now, generally we kind of stay along the same path, but you could be making a complete career change. I used to think that I wanted to be a journalist, right. I used to think I was going to be a reporter.
Speaker 0 00:17:42 Well, that's been replaced by blogging and things like that. Right? So that career is no longer there. I wanted to be a teacher. I still teach, but now I'm a trainer, you know, and that, that's, that's something that, um, we have to remember is that it really you're just trying to lay the foundation for them. So there are a ton of jobs in manufacturing, automotive, it can be an electrician, it could be a plumber. Um, and those are the ones that we traditionally think of when we, um, when we talk about these kinds of non-traditional students, but then take it even a step further. I mean, they can go into the medical field, they could be a massage therapist, a dental assistant, a paralegal, you know, all of those types of jobs, even LPN, things like that. Um, real estate, agent insurance, agent, accounting, bookkeeping.
Speaker 0 00:18:25 There's so many jobs in that, but also where I've seen a lot of successes in tech and, um, you know, doing learning those texts feels like you were just talking about with your daughter, learning the layouts and editing and all of that great stuff. Those are all laying the foundation for a career in tech or in marketing. And she doesn't even know about it yet, especially like digital marketing, which is something that I've been focused on for at least the last 12 years, you know, um, working as a, a marketer, a content manager, a project manager, um, and I'm currently just sort of buying my skills, doing the digital marketing pro course, which is, um, from the DMI and the American marketing association. It's the global standard and marketing. It's only a 30 hour course and you get certified once you're done with it. Um, and get two certifications for the price of one.
Speaker 0 00:19:14 Wow. So it's continued learning and actually what's so cool about it. We offer it through my job. And I worked through, I worked for a marketing agency, a digital marketing agency, and we have a training division. So we offer this course. And if you live in the state of Ohio, so this is, this is crazy. And it's a little known secret. Nobody knows about right. If you live in a state of Ohio, if you work in the state of Ohio, employers are able to be reimbursed up to $2,000 for each employee credential, a technology focused credential. So we're working with students now, non-traditional students who are having their employers pay for them to take this digital marketing course, this training that costs like 1975. So it's right under that $2,000 mark and their employer will be reimbursed, but the student gets the credential, right? It's crazy.
Speaker 0 00:20:08 The state of Ohio has given away 32,000 of these reimbursement so far and hardly anyone knows about it. So I'm bringing that up is think about all the jobs that have some sort of technology focus and how you can continue to get these types of, um, have these types of resources or programs or things to help you in your career, but also to help the employer upskill their workforce. So just something to kind of throw out there. Cause I think it's really important to look for these kinds of resources. I, and thank you so much. So parents, I hope and teachers who have students in their classroom, who you're looking at and you're like this kid college is not for them please don't and be okay with that own. The fact that college might not be okay with that and know that there is a world of opportunities out there for your student who might not feel like the four year college is right for them.
Speaker 0 00:20:59 Um, Tiffany, I thank you so much for sharing all this great information with, uh, with the people here. Um, I think that you opened a lot of our eyes to the idea that, um, you don't have to follow in the very clear cut, uh, cookie cutter path, that society is always tries to put us on to be successful. I think that we can start teaching our kids, that we can define our own success. Um, and, and that starts with figuring out who they are, what they want and just creating pathways and, and finding transferable skills to be able to be successful. So thank you so much for your time. It was great having you thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Transferable skills, cultivating real world experience and exploring alternative careers. Those are the points that stood out to me after that conversation.
Speaker 0 00:21:53 Thank you again to our guests, tipping a lot of meta and hopefully this conversation helped you think thoughtfully about the non-traditional learner in your life and how you can best support them. Show notes and resources to the things we discussed are available on our website at www just like me presents that com share this podcast with other parents and educators and your circle, and be sure to subscribe. So you never miss an episode. And if you like what you heard, we will start review reviews, help others discover our show and begin their journey. Have a great week. And remember if our students can see it, they can achieve it.
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