Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, my socially responsible and extremely curious tribe and welcome to revoke rewriting our kids education podcast. My name is Michelle person and we are on a journey. We are rethinking re-examining and re-educating ourselves and our children. We have spent a lot of time this season discussing issues that affect our children before they even enter the classroom, how religion and growing an entrepreneurial mindset. This week, we are headed back into the schoolhouse to focus on reading. We spoke about reading last season, but what you learned here on revoke is that some topics are so expensive. They need to be frequently revisited so that we can glean every last bit of information because the content is just that important. Reading is one of these topics. Our guest today is master reading teacher, Beth Morell, a sixth through eighth grade ESL teacher, who regularly contributes to the ASC D for the association for supervision and curriculum for the uninitiated, the great Mary McLeod Bethune said the whole world opened up to me when I learned how to read it. Reading is the key to ensuring our children have access to that world. We need to make sure we know what to look for when it comes to reading instruction and oh yeah. Are you woke
Speaker 0 00:01:49 On national test last year, only 80% of African-American fourth score, proficient or above in reading for eighth graders. That number was 15%. What is going on here? We know what these statistics mean, struggles in high school, lower college attendance rates and higher incarceration rates. What should we be doing during reading class to address those numbers? Our guest today, Beth Morrow has been doing that work for the last 20 years. And she has a few suggestions that tomorrow. Thank you so much for being here with us today to talk about reading. Thanks. My pleasure to join you. Glad to have you. So we'll probably dive into the importance of reading and, um, and why we have to make sure that we are being very mindful about how we use reading instruction in the classroom, especially when we are primarily teaching larger groups of black and brown learners. Um, can you give everybody a little bit on your, on your background and why you are the expert in this subject? Uh, sure. Um, so I initially started as a secondary English
Speaker 2 00:02:59 Teacher. I taught, I teach currently in Columbus city schools. I teach middle school at Wedgewood middle school. And, um, but my background before that was, I taught for six years in a suburban district. I taught high school ESL, and then I moved to Columbus taught two years at the welcome center, which is our newcomer was at the time our newcomer program. And now it's called the global academy. And then I spent six years as the district level coordinator for all of the ESL, um, programs that we had at the buildings. So I did that and it worked a little bit with the state department, you know, liaison kind of in between and doing things like that. Uh, I've been at Wedgewood since it opened a new building opened in 2008. The majority of our students are smally African and, uh, also Latino. We have a pretty decent Latino population as demographics shift and change. We've just shifted and changed. So yeah, that's where I'm at.
Speaker 0 00:04:01 Okay. Well, what, for those of you who were thrown off by some of those terms, all you need to know is that she has spent the bulk of her career, primarily teaching black and brown students, how to read ESL means that it is English as a second language, which means that, and like she just said, the bulk of the students that she's working with right now are from, um, probably proportions of west Africa, as well as, um, Hispanic students. So obviously trying to make sure that these reading instructional strategies that we implement, um, speak to them. So to keep them engaged and to, and to help them learn how to succeed 100%, she is somebody who knows what to do because she's done it for a long time at the district level. So now that we know what your credentials are, um, let's dive right into reading. Tell us what, in your opinion and your expertise, what does good reading instruction look like? Just in general,
Speaker 2 00:04:55 The foundation, I really believe the foundation is you really have to know the student. You can know the curriculum, you can know, um, strategies, you can know everything about everything, but if you don't spend the time getting to know your students as a human as just a, as just a young learner and not even as a student, just as a young human, you're going to miss so many layers of being able to connect with that child. That's just my, you know, my philosophy is I want to know everything about the kids that I teach, because there's a lot of things we can teach that, that miss the kid, but meet the standard or meet the goal. But when we, when we figure out how to weave those things together, we get so much bang for our buck and you get so much more investment at the student, um, level of interaction, I guess.
Speaker 2 00:05:56 Um, so I think that's that's number one far and away. Um, let's see, I think, um, also giving space to students to learn how to learn, how to read if they're not comfortable reading, because a lot of kids, especially when I get sixth graders who come in, um, they're used to being told, here's what we read. Here's the questions. But I, my, my classroom is primarily, we read a lot for pleasure. We spend a lot of time reading for pleasure, and I will have kids who come in in sixth grade and they're like, I've never read a book. And they wear it as a badge of honor. Like I've never read a book. I've never finished a book. And then by eighth grade, because my kids, I usually loop my kids unless they test out and they'll come in and then, you know, it's so gratifying when they come in in seventh grade and they're like, we have a discussion at the beginning of the year. What did you read over the summer? And those kids, a lot of times the sixth graders that came in with their badge of, I didn't read anything. They're like, well, I only read one or two books. And I said, but that's one or two more than you read last year. And they're like, yeah. And so we can have a conversation about books as people who are readers, not as teacher and student, you should be doing this kind of thing. Yes.
Speaker 0 00:07:21 So that's a very important part because you don't, you don't want reading to be looked at as something they have to do. You want it to be something that they want to do and, and that you're, that you're growing. That's what you're cultivating. And I really loved the first thing you said, which was about, um, getting to know your student before anything. But before you do your first instructional lesson, before you decide which file sounds you're going to teach, or what strategy you're going to work on a day, get to know your students. That is the basis of culturally responsive teaching, teaching the person and not teaching an idea or a standard. So I think that, you know, I appreciate that. You said both of those things, those both great, great insights.
Speaker 2 00:08:04 Yeah. I think that applies no matter what your content is, um, especially in, and I hate to keep bringing up. I hate to weave bringing up, but I've been talking about with my colleagues about, we're not only teaching our content this year, we're teaching we're reteaching socialization, we're reteaching re-engagement because the majority of our students have lost, you know, just a little footing in those areas. And, and school is the place to do that. And we have to create a safe, comfortable place for them to explore it. Because if we just keep pushing to the point of content, we're missing so much and we need to create, we need to help students learn to create themselves as learners again, because they're coming from, you know, a lot of, a lot of spaces where there was kind of a pause there
Speaker 0 00:09:03 And the, and the, our students. So they were, they were learning in the process anyway. So 18 month pause and halt that learning and got to learn all that all over again. So where do you think schools in general fall short?
Speaker 2 00:09:16 One of my thoughts is it's, um, and it's, it's no fault. It's no fault of schools. It's just that the, the pressure to continue to maintain the continuum of the student here needs to be the student here. It needs to be, you know, needs to grow, but there's more, there's more to it than content. And I think we're coming, we're getting more of that through, um, social, emotional learning through, um, we have some folks who do some mindfulness activities with us, and, um, I actually became over COVID over the quarantine and I became a yoga teacher. Um, so I could teach in my classroom. I actually have always taught it in my classroom, you know, for fun, but actually went into it and dove into it so that we can, you know, learn to do that, to connect, to connect the whole child together because it's not just a student who can do math and student who can read and all of that stuff, but it's connecting and making them, um, realize that there's, there's, there's so many small spaces to fill that we can't just keep pushing through and pushing through.
Speaker 2 00:10:36 We have to take time to figure out what holes need to be plugged in and how to bridge those gaps within the child. You know, there's, you know, there's, we talk about the gaps, learning gaps all the time, but there's learning gaps within the child. And I just think sometimes we're, we're so pressed for time and we're so, you know, my class was, are 48 minutes and to come in and to get we journal every day and we talk about books every day and then we get to content every day. And sometimes you don't get all the things done that you need to do. And it's, I don't know how to add more time into the school day. I wish we,
Speaker 0 00:11:17 Yeah, so we're probably like, so definitely I think what I heard was we're falling short, um, recognizing that that kid is doing well in your class, but maybe not so well in math that you were only looking at the math issue as an math issue instead of a whole child issue. Um, I think that's the, and if you looked at it more at a whole child issue, you might be able to find the missing piece that creates that bridge. Um, but sometimes it doesn't happen for all the reasons that you stated, not, not enough time, you know, other things take priority coming back from COVID, you know, all of those things are reasons why, you know, we aren't able to do what we need to do in order to facilitate a whole child mindset. Um, but since you seem to be very aware and woke, as we say, um, what are three things that you do in your classroom to engage your students who are primarily made up of black and brown learners and in reading?
Speaker 2 00:12:13 Okay. I wrote this down. So am I actually had, I actually came up with four, um, that I, that I believe in wholeheartedly, um, learn where they're coming from, learn, learn them as a student, learn them as a child, learn them as a part of a family as part of learn, learn their backgrounds, talk to them. Um, you can get so much more, um, investment from them if you just show a little interest. Um, I think a big one that we miss out on is teaching, especially in the digital age that we've kind of fallen into quite honestly, in some cases, teaching explicitly, um, teaching explicit skills that you expect them to learn because we presume, or we assume that they learn these skills at home, that they pick up, you know, they're on their phones all the time, and we assume that they can zoom around their phones and get on these things. And they really can't give an example
Speaker 0 00:13:16 Of that. Cause I think that is very important.
Speaker 2 00:13:18 Yeah. So, um, for example, actually in my classroom, um, today this is a lesson that I love to do is we were trying to integrate Google classroom more into our classroom, rather than just waiting for us to go remote again at some point, and then have to, you know, teach how to access Google classroom from the external, rather than the internal in the classroom. And so the journal exercise today was we wrote directions in our journal on how we get on Google classroom. And you think this would be such a simple, straightforward thing. We have, you know, we log in, we go to clever, we click on Google classroom, we enter Google classroom. I have kids with one sentence. I have kids with three pages. I have kids that are like, I don't even know how to get to Google classroom. So, so me that's for me to know, okay, who do I need to teach this extra to?
Speaker 2 00:14:19 But then they had an appreciation because I took a few of those and I would read those. And I said, okay, I sat the Chromebook right in front of me. And I said, let's read this step-by-step and think of how to do this. And at first they're like, you know, of course they don't want to do anything. They didn't. They were like, I don't want to do that. So I opened it up and then we would read the direction and somebody would chime in, oh, that's not right. You should do this. And I said, well, why is that? So just to make them make it something they think through, um, so that you can see where the gaps are in the thinking, and then we're going to do this again. And they're actually going to have, they're going to have a little contest in my class to make log-in posters.
Speaker 2 00:15:02 That way we can post them in our Google classroom so that they can just reinforce that. Should we have to go remote? Or should I have kids who are out, you know, for COVID and they can refresh their memories if they don't remember, because if you don't teach it explicitly, you can't have the expectation that they can do it. That they're there, that you're missing the balance. There you have to, we can't keep assuming that kids are, even though they're coming with digital skills on their phones, we can't assume that that translates into digital learning because they come from so many backgrounds, so many different spaces and places and levels. So we have to teach it explicitly if we expect them to be able to perform for us, you know? And I appreciate it.
Speaker 0 00:15:49 Yeah, they do. And I think I'm going to chime in and say that, that, that, that is something that I think every teacher needs to take a step back and remember, um, one of the things, when you're a new teacher, what they teach you is you can't make your rules. Be things like, be good, be reasonable because you're, you're, you're assuming they know what being good looks like in school. You're assuming that they understand what being responsible is in school. So that's going to be your rule. You have to spend time unpacking that word. Good. You have to spend time on packing that word responsible, very explicitly saying and giving examples. This is what it means to be good. Or, and actually we don't like that word. We don't like the word, but, you know, but just that the example, but yes, the idea that explicit that we have to stop, assuming what our kids know and really find out, I think is a great tip.
Speaker 2 00:16:46 Yeah. Yeah. I found that lesson out the hard way, many times. So at some point you have to pull back and see, because it creates a frustration level in the teacher. And of course, if you're frustrated, you know, they're frustrated. So you're just going to get them to shut down. So getting them invested in something like a symbol. And I think some teachers would hear that and be like, I'm not teaching my kids how to get on Google classroom, but if you expect it and they don't know it, then you're just setting yourself up for a circle. You know? So, um, and then having my third one was having the expectation that they can learn because there are some times that we, we just don't have the expectation that, that some kids are struggling with so many things. We don't hold the expectation. We don't hold space for the expectation for them.
Speaker 2 00:17:42 And they know that they, they can sense it. Kids can pick up whether you believe in them or not, but you can say what you want. Kids can feel it. They sense it. Um, and we have to hold that expectation. And my expectation for this student may not be my same, the same for this month, but we have to hold an expectation. We can't just teach and go on with it. We have to expect that they will maybe not get it right away. Maybe they'll need way more time in processing, but we have to somehow let them know that we, we expect this out of you because we know you can do it. Um, and then my fourth one was kind of along with that is the environment in this space. Um, I've had so many people come into my classrooms, students who are not my students, students who will walk by my door when my door is open and they'll like pop their head in, they're going to the restroom and they just pop their head and they're like, I want to be in your class.
Speaker 2 00:18:42 And I'm like, I don't even know you. And they're like, it's so it's, so it's not, we're not quiet. We're not a quiet class, but where we just have, we hold space for each other. We're very kind. And when we're not kind, we talk about why we're not kind. We make, we don't let anything slide, but we also have a lot of compassion. We, we understand today. I had a student who had a meltdown, absolute meltdown markers, all over the floor. Um, and this student has been having meltdowns and everyone just kept looking back. And I said, is there, is there something we can do to help him? Like, rather than just keep looking at him because he knows he's having a problem. And one student just got up and went up and helped him pick up the markers. And the other student was like talking to him quietly.
Speaker 2 00:19:30 He was a Spanish speaker. So she was speaking Spanish to him and I let them solve their own problems because they're actually a really super sweet class. So they they're just very kind to each other, but we have to model for them the behavior and maybe give a little prompting, but give them the space to process, oh, maybe we could do this, you know, and not stare at him because if that was me, you know, I wouldn't feel so good. So we have to, we have to give him space. And that is the hardest thing to do when you're so pressed for time, it's like such a it's, it's a high wire act, you know, and it's, but you have to know what you're going to come out better on the other side, if you give them that space and that environment to process.
Speaker 0 00:20:13 So what I'm hearing after, after listening to your top four things, is that it's more about building a sense of community and respecting the students as individuals than it is almost sometimes the actual instruction. Like it's almost what I'm hearing is the reading instruction is almost secondary before you can even begin the reading instruction. You have to create these environments where our kids feel safe, where they're given that space where you know them as an individual, um, and where they want and where they want to be. And then the reading instruction be gotten.
Speaker 2 00:20:48 I would agree with that. And I would even say, you know, I would even say to that to the fact that, um, it's, uh, it's, you know, we've, we were all taught in undergraduate, you know, get them to invest, get them to buy in, get them to, you know, be interested in what you're selling. But if you, if you spend the time creating the space where they feel safe, you'll get the investment, you'll get the interest, you'll get them coming from a stressful situation in the hallway, or a bad morning with mom and dad, or a bad moment in the lunchroom. And they'll come in your room and they'll know, I can let that go. And that takes work. That does take work. But then when they're themselves, then you, and you know them, you know, you can also challenge them, you know, in what direction you can challenge them.
Speaker 2 00:21:38 I can challenge you. You know, maybe I know that you're not a strong writer, but I know you're strong in, um, your verbal skills. So let's talk about this and then let's write it rather than having you write it and then do something else. You know, just knowing those little, um, those little ways in, you know, it, it goes, it's gone a long way. It's gone along, it's transformed my teaching. I'll be honest. I did not start that way. I was a high school reading teacher and there was, there was no place for space and softness when you're trying to teach Shakespeare and you got to do this and this and this and this, and you've got to have this. That's why I left high school because it was too much of that. And, and good teachers find a way to, to manage that balance, you know? And it, it, it takes a lot, I think it takes some introspection on the teacher's part of their own styles too. So,
Speaker 0 00:22:36 Yeah. So are there any, so you've floated around, like you just mentioned that you started in high school and now you're in middle school and you work at the district level, um, after they all this, this, um, this very, um, the space has given and the culture has been cultivated so that the kid can be engaged. Are there any curriculums or resources that you think that are, um, superior that you think, um, are, are preferable to use, um, in schools that do a really good job of engaging and making sure students get the explicit skills that they need?
Speaker 2 00:23:10 Um, I would have to say no, but not because they don't exist. But when I read that question, I was like, because every situation is so unique, you have to find what works for you. Um, because we have things we have to do and going outside of that, we have to have a really strong belief in what it is that we do. Um, I, you know, I really don't other, um, you know, one thing I've done over the years that has, and it's not a curriculum, but service learning is a great, a great way to bring in actual, real world stuff and actual skills and content and develop an interest in the students so that they actually get really engaged. I mean, some of the, I mean, I had kids who went to high school and would come back to me and say, remember that time we did this project and we painted rocks, or we did whatever.
Speaker 2 00:24:14 And you're thinking it's just a lesson, but you know, it's, I don't have a curriculum. That's okay. So service learning, talk about what service learning is. Um, so service learning is where we take, we, we, we find some sort of project to get excited about and interested in, and then we align that with, um, curriculum and skills and, and everything together to create some sort of project that goes beyond us that goes outside, that takes us into the outside world, but it also brings the outside world into us. Um, I've been a part of a lot of service learning initiatives. So I, I have done, um, multiple projects with different groups, different, um, sets of children. I, a few years ago, I did a group where we did a project with, um, Columbus police department. And we did, um, we ha there weren't as much, it wasn't as much service learning, but it was a learning to interact with the community.
Speaker 2 00:25:24 And we learned how to bike safely. We learn how to take care of bikes and repair bikes. It was all girls. And, um, then we took our bikes into, we took our bikes with officers out and did multiple mile rides around the city, not really to the city, but around the, around the neighborhoods. So we got familiar with the neighborhoods in that way. And then we would come back and talk about it and process all the things that that took place. And, um, those kids, those, those girls were. So, um, just so grateful to have that opportunity because they wouldn't have had the opportunity otherwise. And it created a passion in them. They, they came excited to learn. They came excited. They couldn't, they wanted to go outside. It was the second semester. And it was, I want to say like late January and they wanted to go outside and ride bikes. And I'm like, we can't go outside. It's very frigid, it's cold. I don't think it was snowy. Um, but it was like, we can't go outside today. They're like, oh, but we want to go out and, you know, do something with our deers or whatever they had been taught. And I'm like, we just, we just can't go outside today. So when you get kids who really want to go outside in frigid weather, you know, you've done something, right? Know, you know, you you've gotten some connection there. So
Speaker 0 00:26:46 It sounds a lot like project-based learning service. And a lot of times these, uh, these terms and education, they can be, um, they sometimes are interchanged, but I worked in a district that was really big on project-based learning and, um, a similar project that some kids did where they had to map out, um, the area that they lived in the community. And it became, it was this huge project where they, they did their house and they did the school. Um, and then they had to create, um, big creative writing pieces, advertising different places around the city. I mean like, so when you say service learning is, is a, is a great tool. I think that that actually is a good tip. Like whenever possible, don't make it just about paper, pencil. Don't make it just about, you know, uh, words on a screen and a quiz at the end of the week, try to make it relatable to the real life and applicable.
Speaker 0 00:27:35 And then they are, they will give you more, um, you know, they will give you more writing. They will, they will read extra books about the topic they will, you know, they will seek out information. Um, if you make it relatable to them and make it something that they can really relate to. So that's actually, it's okay. And that's not a specific curriculum so much as it is a teaching framework and idea for how to get kids engaged in reading. And so that's fine, but there's not a, there's not curriculum with no problem. So how can parents support,
Speaker 2 00:28:10 Um, you know, I'm a teacher. So the first thing I'm going to tell you is come and talk to your teachers. We don't, we don't want to teach your child in a vacuum. We don't want to teach the kids in a vacuum. We want to know some of my best memories are parents who have come to me and said, look, we're having this issue. We're having this issue at home and what can we do about it? And we work together. I love working with parents as a team. I'm very fortunate that I have a Spanish interpreter and a Somali interpreter that we can call home, have parent conferences. Parents will come in and just, you know, just come in for a meeting. And it's, we're bridging that gap. I mean, that might be one of the biggest gaps, but if there's, and I know sometimes parents are really reluctant because they think, I know my student's not doing well, or I know my student has had this behavior, or I know my student is not getting work done because, you know, whatever family reason let us know that, let teachers know that because we can accommodate that.
Speaker 2 00:29:20 Most of the time we can create something where, um, you know, something that, something that brings together what the child needs with, where the child is like, we, and we don't want you to, we don't want the parent to fight. There's no need to fight that battle by yourself. And not that it's a battle, that's not what I mean, but to have to deal with, you know, we're in this together. And I wish I could tell more appearance stuff when you're having a problem, don't be too. Um, don't be afraid to say something. We have so many resources at our school building. We have so many community resources. We have, um, you know, so many, so many programs in so many ways to offer help, whether it's physical health, whether it's emotional, mental health, whether it's, um, academic health, you know, we have so many resources.
Speaker 2 00:30:21 And to think that a parent is out there, you know, really struggling to get this kid, their kid, to learn or to engage, or to even get up and come to school. We have resource office, they go to house and get kids to come in, you know, and they're happy to do it. So come, come ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help because that's what we're here for. I mean, that's, I mean, we're, we're here to help take care of the whole kid. And, and just like you, we, we don't want to have to think that it's all a school problem and you don't want to have to us to think it's all a home problem. We can work together on a solution. There's usually somewhere that we can find something that helps. We have so many resources.
Speaker 0 00:31:16 So parents, you can support by just reaching out, just reaching out. If you have a question, the teachers are there. They want to help. They want to bridge that gap. I want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today. Um, I really appreciate it. And I hope our listeners really got something out of it.
Speaker 2 00:31:33 Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. It was an absolute pleasure
Speaker 0 00:31:37 Build relationships and teach the whole child. Everything else is secondary. What do you think hop on over to our Facebook group, just like me presents and let us know, show notes and resources are available on our website. Just like me presents that com share this podcast with other parents and educators in your circle hit subscribe. So you never miss an episode and leave a review. So we know what we're doing. Well, join us next week when we will be talking about writing instruction, reading and writing, go hand in hand. So we need to make sure our kids can do both. Thanks for listening. And remember, if our children can see it, they can achieve it.
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